In block 4, last Friday, Kevin was so disgusted in John's initial decision to sign his name to a lie, but did you understand why Kevin was so appalled by John's decision to sign at that time? If so, continue on and consider the fact that he tore up the document and chose to die instead...
So....DID JOHN MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION TO HANG? Explain why...
Think about his family, his Christian morals, his friends and the townspeople.
I think that he made the right decision because if he confessed then his family and him will be known as winches
ReplyDeleteBut what if he could have convince people he wasn't a witch?
Delete"winches"?
DeleteI agree to an extent, however the church will forever know you as a witch (at that time anyways)regardless of what you do or say the label will forever be branded upon as long as that church stands. Recall this as well: everybody went to church and therefor everybody was influenced by the church and told what to believe and what to see as false, evil and wrong according to the church.
DeleteGood point, in that it may havebeen possible, if he had chosen to live, that he may have been able to prove otherwise, or maybe the whole hysteria would have "died down" (which it ended up doing anyway, but then, well, he would be a coward to all! And since the church "told (them) what to believe," they dare not go against it. Ridiculous in a way isn't it? No free will to think. Imagine someone trying to tell you that God controls your thoughts, and "it is not for you to say what you think" (Hale).
DeleteI think John's decision to hang was the right one. If he would've signed the document instead, he would've had to live with the townspeople resenting him the rest of his life. That torment also would've transcended onto his children which he didn't want so instead he chose to die. I completely agree with this decision.
ReplyDeleteI understand on what you are saying, but who is going to take care of his kids. I mean it is different times that I am thinking of but I wouldn't want ot leave my kids. It wouldn't matter how bad my name is as long as I know that im telling the truth.
DeleteHis wife of course...if you remember she never died in the movie, they only sentenced John.
DeleteIt is not easy to take care of three kids, and she is supposed to get hung. After she has her kid they said that they were going to hang her, but it is against "God" to kill the innocent. So they can't hang her at this time when she is pregnant.
DeleteJohn made the right decision. He did not want his name out there in a bad way. The people in the town would have resented him and that was something he would have to live with. At least he went out a good Christian man instead of lying just to make the others look good. He gets to die with pride instead of live in denial and shame. Therefor he made the right decision to hang
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, John Proctor did make the right decision to hang. At first, John signed his name in order to save himself and his wife Elizabeth from being hung. Later, he tore the paper and refused to be listed as a witch for the rest of his life. I believe that he did the right thing because the lives of his family and future child would’ve been ruined. Their rights to church, which was extremely important during that time period, would’ve been ruined and they would’ve been tormented in the town. John’s children probably would face many difficulties during their life because of John signing that paper. I believe this was an act of courage and sticking to what he believed is right based on his morals as a Christian man.
ReplyDeleteNicely stated.. But what about his friends, whom he claimed he was "not worth the dust on the feet" of them that hanged? What factor did they serve in his decision?
DeleteHis friends such as Rebecca Nurse strongly disagreed with his decision to lie and sign that paper. She did have part in his decision to stick to his morals. However, his first judgement to sign the paper was mainly influenced by Elizabeth because she wanted to live and lied in order to save herself and her family.
DeleteBut why doesn't he feel he is worth "the dust on the feet of them that" hanged? Why does he feel so inferior?
DeleteHe feels that way because majority believes the girls and wants him hung. If he were to continue to defend himself and stay with what we know is truthful,they'd still argue with him and either way he'd be tormented, accused and despised by the others. Eventually, he'd be hung.
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DeleteJohn proctor definitely made the right decision by ripping up the confession. I can understand Kevin's disgust because if he confesses not only would his family name be slaughtered but he would be morally defeated by lying. Over pride is a sin but their is nothing wrong with pride in your religion and morals. His end decision was righteous and respectable.
ReplyDelete"Righteous" and "respectable" in any other way? Did his adultery have an impact on his decision perhaps? He claimed he didn't deserve to walk "the scaffold like a saint" if he had "sold himself"-- why not?
Deletethe adultery doesn't have an affect because he admitted to what he did and got his wife's forgiveness, his decision i believe was purely not to taint the reputation of the people who died before him.
DeleteAMEN!!! WOW> So many of my students are focused on the "reputation" factor, but so many have neglected to understand how John hated himself and felt he had no right to be forgiven.. He felt he wasn't "worth the dust on the feet of them that hanged" !!!
DeleteYou truly understood this play while every few can handle its intensity beyond the common plot
John made the right decision to hang because he did not work with the devil. He would have known that he was just lied to safe his life. He didn’t want be a hypocrite like the others. He knew that they were all wrong and that hanging him self is the best way to proof them wrong. He knew he was not going to see his kids grow but a least they would know that he was a hero. He made the right choice because he made the court and the people that believe there was witchcraft look stupid because it was just a lie.
ReplyDeleteNicely stated Myra! Do you believe that the head Judge Danforth was a hypocrite though? The fact that he claimed to be seeking the truth, but was more worried about something else, perhaps?
DeleteJudge Danforth was a hypocrite he just didnt want to be proven wrong and the girl were just lied and that there really no devil in that town
DeleteI so agree with you. If he had agreed to witchcraft like the other he would be just like them. From what I was saw John was the complete opposite of the others. He was one of the few with common sense to live a life of truth not a lie. Better to live a life of truth then a life a lies which could have destroy him from the inside out.
DeleteDo I sense a "pride" theme going on here? What is it with the male species and pride? Even Rev. Hale suggested that John not "throw his life away for pride!"
DeleteIt wasn't just pure pride he did it for though, he was thinking about his wife and kids; how he didn't want them to live with the title of witches themselves.
Delete@ E.Bermdez yes he had common sense to live. He not a lier and that he didnt wanna just say a lie to save him self. He knew it was a lie and that at the end they will all pay. @ herdman yeah there pride and they have alot of it they wanna be seen as the big and powerful that never do anything wrong
Delete@ Idouglas yes it not just pride but it is a big deal. he didnt wanna have them been know for witches but him pretending to be it wrong that why. He's prides is the one that made the choice to be hanged instead of just another lie. He had more pride then anything because he didnt even want to confess his affair.He did do it for his family but his pride is a lot stronger then the love for family he just didnt wanna be the one to ruin there lives
DeleteI think John made the right decision, he helped save more people from being hung. He took the blame for it all so it made it better for the people that were hung before cause now the judges regret hanging them people. And those people names will be cleared now from being accused of this. If he didn't take the blame of this he would be either getting crap from the townspeople all the time or something even worse.
ReplyDeleteYou are entirely correct as his his decision was entirely selfless.. Not sure what "getting crap" means but I assume it is derogatory in some way.
DeleteIn my opinion, John's decision to hang rather than signing his name was the right decision to make because of the morals he held. By not signing, he attempted to keep a good name for his children. If his children were to grow up and the Proctor name were tainted, then they would face a very harsh life. Essentially John Proctor died so that the future Proctors would not be judged based on the what had happened in Salem.
ReplyDeleteAny other reason? You are very clear in your understanding as to his concern for his lineage, but what about for his friends?
DeleteJohn's decision also reflected his decision with his own friends in Salem. John must've believed that if he stood alive and signed his named, he would be condemned by everyone including his own friends in Salem.
DeleteKeep in mind though, that his closest friends were hung for refusing to confess! Giles, Martha, Rebecca!!
DeleteSo....DID JOHN MAKE RIGHT DECISION TO HANG? Explain why...
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion John made the right decision. I believe this because John wanted the town to know he was telling the truth. And if he was willing to risking his life for the truth than it tells me a lot about what his name means to him. I also think he made the right decision because it would have been self destructing to him if people actually thought he sided with the devil (if he was never hung and admitted to witch craft.) Also if John admitted to siding with the devil it would make Abigail and the other look like they never lied.
That's IT!! Unfortunately though, his death was the only thing that could reveal a truth! Wow.. Almost sounds like a biblical allusion. That is, his death "supposedly was for the sins of others"???
DeleteWOW... Never really saw it like that but now that you said that it opens another understanding to the movie
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DeletePRomeril says:
DeleteHere is a quote from the first Buddha: "There are two mistakes one can make along the road to truth... not going all the way, and not starting." All throughout Miller's play, the theme of people believing lies to appease their ego is present.
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ReplyDeleteJohn did not make the right decision when choosing to hang in order to leave his name. An honest and good man should be honest and good all the time. I do understand that people make mistakes, but when living in Salem, living under the Christian lifestyle, people should not commit adultery let alone any sin. John should've just signed the document and be done with it. His name was already blackened throughout the village for the rumors going around about him and Abby. John's wife feels betrayed because of her suspicions, John feels regret for having an affair with Abby. A good man should put his name aside, put his family first, and if people don't like him for confessing. He has two boys, a wife, and a child on the way; I think his dignity is not equal or at more value than his family. As the reader can see, according to the movie, John was not very wise in his decision because people were distraught over it. Therefore, John should have went the other route, and let his name go to shame.
ReplyDeleteRarely is anyone capable of arguing such a side to this response. Very well argued.. Let' see if anyone would like to reply... Impressive!
DeleteBut if he chose to stay he most likely would have been run out of town and hated by a lot of people. Also his name might have been "blackened" but he still died with his honor.
DeleteThen if he were to be run out of town, at least he'd be run out of town with his family. His family is what's most important right now.
Deletebut where would they go if they ran out of town?? Atleast he left his family with land and a place to live. He also unburdened his name but choosing to be hung...
Delete"An honest and good man should be honest and good all the time." If he would've signed the paper, he would've been signing to a lie, which isn't being an honest and good man. And his family name would've been soiled. He was looking out for his family when choosing to hang.
DeleteI believe that John Proctor did not make the right decision to hang. I understand that he didn't want his name to be dishonored by having the town believe that he was a witch, but at the same time, he left his wife and two kids behind. I know his pride was at stake but his wife was pregnant with his third child that he'll never even be able to see now. Personally I wouldn't care what people thought about me, as long as the ones I loved knew what happened and forgave me for it.
ReplyDelete...
DeleteBut if he was never hung he AND HIS FAMILY would have been seen as witches. So was his decision to hang worth HIS FAMILY's name?
DeleteI agree with reta 100% I wouldn't want to leave my family behind. I know it is different time peroid from today, but a name compared to family I think family wins. Like he said as long as he and his family knows who is telling the truth that is all that matters.
DeleteI believe that John made the right decision because he saved a lot more people from being hung. I believe this because he lied said he saw the devil. I think he saved all the girls.
ReplyDelete16 people out of the 19 total were hung prior to him, though. How do you mean "he saved" them? Perhaps not physically? How did he save the girls too?
DeleteHe took the blame for the girls.
DeleteI believe that John made the right choice. The reason why is because not only did he save his name, but also saved the others who were hanged. Also he did it so he could save his wife and kids. He also did it because he would live a liar and a sinner or die with some honor. He probably knew that it was better to be dead then to be alive at that point. Lastly he was now know as an adulterer so he was going to be hated and resented for it. Ill will leave you in this note, would rather die with your honor and morals or be know as an adulterer for the rest of your life.
ReplyDeleteoooohhh! "rather die with your honor and morals or be know(n) as an adulterer for the rest of your life"? Hmmm.. Are you also also saying that a sinner has the ability to become a hero?
Delete@herdman that is exactly what i'm saying. Sometimes the biggest hero is the biggest sinner.
DeleteThe version of Christianity practiced at that time and space has come a long way from the man "who broke bread with outcasts and sinners", and perhaps not the direction that that man would have had them take.
DeleteWOw.. Between Sellitti and Romeril, I believe we have identified an intriguing allusion. Forgive my biblical references as they are merely for analytical intentions, but the man (J) who "broke bread with" or befriended and saw good in others such as sinners is heroic. Perhaps even the idols in our lives are not perfect, but are seeking redemption or a chance to find his or her "own goodness" as Elizabeth claims John has found.
DeleteI believe that John Proctor did make the right decision to hang. Deciding to hang was the right decision because he saved his name, as well as the name of everyone else who was accused of being a witch. If he had signed the paper saying he was a witch, his children would have to grow up with their name blackened. Also, if he had signed, he would have made everyone accused of being a witch and got hanged for it look like a liar.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe that John made the right decision. John chose his pride over his own life. In doing so he also condemned Rebecca Nurse, Giles Corey's wife, and his own wife to death, and his unborn child to a life of shame and orphanhood. I do not believe he did what was right for his family, and if he had just accepted the shame and sucked up his pride, he could have spared the lives of these people. I would rather have the shame of lying on my conscience than the burden of knowing that I could have saved people from death, but refused to. The guilt would just be too great. I know it is a very tough decision, but I would rather die an outcast than believe that I was somewhat responsible for the deaths of innocent people.
ReplyDeleteWOw.. Nicely argued. Any comments anyone????
DeleteI agree with, "I'd rather die an outcast then believe that I was somewhat responsible for the deaths of innocent people." John should have realized that, because his dignity was not as equal or more value than his family.
DeleteWouldn't Giles Corey's wife and Rebecca Nurse still be hung because they didn't confess themselves? Just because John signed his name away didn't mean that it would've saved those two lives. It would've saved Elizabeth and her unborn child, but then for centuries to come, the Proctor name would be soiled and his family would never be able to forget. Their lives would be in jeopardy everyday because John signed a lie and the town would never trust them. John was looking out more for his family then himself when he decided to hang, from my perspective.
DeleteAnd not to mention that his sin of adultery was out and he and his name would've not only been resented for signing a paper saying he practiced witchery, but for committing the sin of adultery.
DeleteYou saw what committing adultery did to John, if he would of said he was working with the devil it would of been worse. He wouldn't of been able to live with himself knowing all of those people died for the same reason he was supposed to. He fought the whole movie that him and his wife were not working with the devil and to turn his back on that would of been the most cowardly thing of all.
DeleteWow this really id change my perception, but still can you blame John? he lived his life in misery since he cheated, and if he would have signed the contract he would have lived forever in misery anyway.
DeleteI believe that John made the right decision. John would not of been able to live with himself anyway if he decided to say he was working with the devil. He already made a really bad decision in his life and it crushed him inside. If he would of admitted to working with the devil it would of done the same harm that him committing adultery did. So many people have stood with him to try and get his wife back by not saying they are working with the devil. It would of been very cowardly for him to change his word just to save his wife and himself. He died with honor and a hero to a lot of people in Salem and that is how he most likely would of liked to be remembered.
ReplyDeleteThat is true.. He did "hold to the truth" while everyone around him refused to do so in order to save themselves, the girls, Mary, Putnam, even Parris. It seems that the real world devours the truth, doesn't it? Have you ever been in a situation that didn't welcome the truth?
DeleteOnce, in a different school, I had a assignment in which the teacher would take my word for the score. I did horribly on that assignment, but still gave the correct score to the teacher. Another time, at a different school, there was a spelling assignment that most of the class was struggling with. The teacher agreed to grade on a curve, with the highest score being the 100% mark. I got a perfect score, making most of the class fail, though that was not my intention. The truth has rarely been welcomed, even by those who profess to seek it. I agree, the world devours truth.
DeleteQuite possibly, truth will make a fool of someone then. In your case, the teacher. (the "Judge Danforth as in the play) If the teacher wanted or could actually handle swallowing his or her pride and daring to accept his was a fool, then truth would excel. And unfortunately, no one wants to look like a fool.
DeleteJohn made the best decision, he knew if his name was damaged he couldn't live the same way. John and his family would not be respected in the town he would be better of died then live as a witch.
ReplyDeleteBut now how will his family, especially his new son/daughter survive?
DeleteElizabeth would end up dead and the kids will end up moving in with someone helping them survive. But it's not only about him and his family, it's about proving the court/church that they are being lead on by a bunch of little girls.
DeleteThat is true to one sense, but you wouldn't want your kids to live without their parents. If John was still alive he could prove that the girls were not telling the truth.
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ReplyDeleteDo you think that his pride and respect were the only factors that influenced his decision? What about the way his life would've been and the consequences that his children would have to deal with?
DeleteProctor did question, "How may I teach my children to walk like men in the world if I have signed myself to lies?"
DeleteThough I've already stated hat John made the right decision, does anyone thing maybe it was a bad one? I mean his new son/daughter will grow up without a father.
ReplyDelete*that*
DeleteMany people already live without their father (i.e. me).
DeleteAt first I thought about that and thought it was a bad decision, but then I realized that if he stood alive, the kid would be mistreated as he/she grows up because of the name being disrespected.
DeleteTrue but that doesn't mean it's a good thing. I live without my father to but who is to say things wouldn't be better if i did?
DeleteAnd the proctors could've skipped town.
DeleteEven if he did leave town, there is still a document that states he is a witch and he signed it himself. He would need to live with his lie forever.
Delete"think"
DeleteYou also have to consider the limited resources back then. There was no Home Depot or Giant food store. You owned hundreds of acres of land, worked it forever and jarred (preserved) all of the food you farmed just to survive the winter! You didn't get any further in life than to survive. Without land, you would most likely die! ANd what would he have to hand off to his children?
DeleteThere is a reason for all actions. To him, the right decision was to get hanged. Reputation to a man is everything. He would have rather died then to know that he was living a part of his life in a lie. Especially knowing the townspeople would have believed he was involved with witchcraft and risk them turning on John.
ReplyDeleteJohn made the right decision from my perspective. He was willing to sign a lie for his wife and kids, and I think the court should’ve just taken that because it seemed to ruin his humanity enough. If John let them keep that signed document, his name would’ve been looked down upon for centuries to come. His family then, his children’s children, and generations to come would’ve been born with a soiled name and their lives would have been, for a lack of better words, crap. If Proctor let the court keep the lie he signed his name to, he would’ve put his family in more jeopardy than what he actually decided to do. Therefore, concluding me to think that John made the right decision, for not only himself, but for his family.
ReplyDeleteYour completely right about the right decision for his families name but not for their survival,if not john proctor who will take care of his sons and pregnant wife?
DeleteJohn made the right decision, he knew what was going on in the village he told people in the village what was going in they just never believed him over the girls'. John was protecting his family and is name by telling the truth even tho he got hung. John was standing up for what he believes not by what other people what him to believe in.
ReplyDeleteJohn made the optimum decision to hang rather than to sign his name away. If he would’ve signed his name, the towns people would’ve look down upon him. They would call him a witch or the devil, and he doesn’t want to live in a life where he is known as a something that he isn’t. Also, if he would’ve signed his name, he and his family would be judged and he didn’t want his family to suffer from a lie. It would've ruined him. Therefore, he made the right decision for him and his family.
ReplyDeleteAll of us seem to repeat the same thing about John making the greatest decision, though his decision was the most righteous, it was also pridefully selfish .
ReplyDeleteIn a way your right. Life is the greatest gift from god, but to take your life over the opinion of people is something else.
DeleteThat's pretty true actually, I didn't really look at him being selfish, but thinking about it that way lets me see the conclusion of the movie differently.
DeleteExactly the point.
DeleteWhat a true statement. If we all did this the human race would be utterly destroyed within years.
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DeleteSo are you saying that he basically committed suicide with only himself in mind? I hate bring it up...
DeleteJohn made the wrong decision to hang. He could have told the truth saying he wasn’t with the devil and still show the village that the girls are truly liars. Everyone else denied being a witch, the pattern would have continued and the hangings would have ended. John could have seen his baby be born and raised his family, but instead he only saved his good name.
ReplyDeleteIt was more for those who bravely "held to the truth" since the fact that no one was confessing was making the whole trials look weak and the judges lose credibility. If he caved, he would make everyone who "held to the truth" look like a liar!
Delete@J.Byler I completely disagree he did the right thing by deciding hang. He wouldn't be able to live with him self watching them people die. I know I couldn't live with myself.
DeleteEven if John lived, he would not have a good life. The whole town would have looked at John like he was a terrible person. He would be judged everyday and so would his family. Also, John had a lot of pride and was very worried about his reputation, and if he lived his name would have been ruined.
DeleteBut John could have showed the people that the girls were liars and still defended his name. He did not have to lie and say he was a witch, but prove the town wrong before any more people could be hurt.
DeleteJohn did make the right decision to hang. If he wouldnt have hung all of those people would of hanged for something they didn’t do. Something that was a lie. If John signed his name he would of made those people look like fools and liars. Worst of all, he would of mad himself look like he was weak and wasn’t true to himself. He had to take one for the team. If not the village would have been corrupted. He sacrificed his life for his wife and kids. The after math of sticking with his first plan he couldn’t tolerate it, he knew he could not live with it. John hung for the sake of the villiage therefore he made the right decision.
ReplyDeleteNicely stated!! I believe you truly do understand the complexity of John's decision..
DeleteI believe that John made the right decision. If John lied and told the town that he was working with the devil his life would have essentially been over. He would have spent his life in jail and his reputation would have been ruined. Not only would his reputation have been ruined but so would his family’s reputation. John would not have been able to live with himself when everyone thought he was working with the devil when he knew he wasn’t. He would have been accused of something terrible everyday of his life that he did not do.
ReplyDeleteExactly, J. Byler. If he would have just sucked up his pride, he could have lived a life with his family, but because he had to cling onto his pride, he let himself be killed. If everyone else denied it, the hangings would have still eventually ended, and he could have lived with his family. If I were John Proctor, I also would not mind the shunning associated with my being a ''witch'', because I think that all the people who lived in Salem were bitter, petty, greedy, money grubbing hypocritical windbags, and I would not want to hang out with them anyway.
ReplyDeleteAnd John was VERY WELL AWARE of those who lived in Salem as "... bitter, petty, greedy, money grubbing hypocritical windbags," but unfortunately, he also shared his knowledge with Abigail!
DeleteJohn did make the right decision since he was standing up for what he believed in. John didn’t want to sign his name off so his kids had to deal with their name when they got older. If he would have said that he was a witch, it could of showed that he didn’t care about his friends that were hung. When John tore up the paper and then said the Lord’s Prayer without messing it up. This showed that he wasn’t a witch and that he was proving a point that the court system is not right all the time.
ReplyDeleteSo are you saying that our court system today is corrupted, or the one in 1692? I look forward to your response!!
DeleteI think that the court system all around is corrupt, but there isn't to much more we can do about it. We are humans and people have their own opinions, so the court system will never be perfect. Defenitly the court system now is better then it was in 1692.
Delete***(Reflect on Proctor's speech.) What in his speech convinced you that he sacrificed his life for his wife and children? Did you analyze John Proctor's "Leave me my name" speech? He did say "Leave me "MY" name. Is it better if you say that he sacrificed his life due to his dedication of being a man?"I have confessed myself! Is there no good penitence but it be public?..."(John Proctor). This quote here consequently eliminates the assumption that Proctor sacrificed his life for his wife and children he did it for self-dignity and his refusal to be defaced & renamed to the public as a title he didnt spend his life making.
ReplyDeleteJohn Procter did the right thing by ripping the document after signing it. At first he was thinking selfishly and about him self and his family but who wouldn't. At first he was thinking selfishly but at the end he decided to not stain the names of the people who died before him to save his life.
ReplyDeleteJohn made the right decision in my eyes. He felt so much guilt from cheating on his wife i don't think his heart could take anymore shame. If he would have confessed to witch craft hisname would have been ruined, and all the others that have been hanged would have died in vein. Bravo John.
ReplyDeleteI agree because he wanted to keep his name and die rather than stay alive and have people look at him badly just because his name. His children would have to carry that same name as well and people would judge them just because of the mistake john made.
DeleteI think that John made the right decision because he didn’t want to have a bad name around the village. He also made a right decision because he felt guilty about what he did to his wife behind her back with Abigail, and not lying to save his life was a good idea since he didn’t want to lie about being a witch. So I honestly think that John made the right choice.
ReplyDeleteJohn made the correct decision because if he would have confessed he wouldn't have had a good reputation anymore. If he would have signed his name it would have been like he was already dead because no one would have acknowledged him because is was as if he confessing to witchcraft.
ReplyDeleteI think John made the right decision because not only was it going to ruin his name but also his reputation knowing that his friend was innocent. People who were hung were going to look like liars when they died with identity and pride. Also John would have looked like a selfish coward who would have lied to have himself and also his pregnant wife which is understandable.
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